Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: You're listening to Selling the Dream. This isn't an interview and we're not journalists, but each week we'll ask our guests to open up and share their secrets to business success.
Let's have a conversation and have some fun. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Selling the Dream. This is your podcast if you're interested in learning and listening to people talk about entrepreneurship, leadership, sales, all the things that make the business wheel go round.
The three most important things I think in business. And, you know, joined with me as always, the entrepreneur, salesman himself, extraordinaire, Joe Iredell. What's up, Joe?
Joe, do you remember when we were selling coffee and like, person to person marketing at Penn State?
I used to get so pissed off because I kind of sucked at it and I don't know what it was. You're like a fucking savant.
Selling coffee, like just. Just breaking records every night. It was unbelievable.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: It was now, man reps, dog reps, wraps that auto dialer, dude, nothing will get you better at sales than trying to sell on an auto dialer that the second you push the enter button, someone's on the line. Ready?
[00:01:25] Speaker A: You are on. You're on.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Right?
[00:01:27] Speaker A: The adrenaline kicks in, right? You get the sale.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Now the ate us in coffee, bro.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: We got a great show today. Speaking of sales, we have a.
I'm gonna, like. He'll. He'll probably argue with me, but I'm gonna say he's a legend.
Stephen, Ronald, Stephen. Steven. Ronald.
The director of sales with OCF Realty, Jeff Silva Group. I met Steve a couple years ago and he is the absolute man. Stephen, thank you very much for hanging out with us today.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: Hey, thanks for having me. And hey, listen, your conversation about selling coffee, I can go back to my college days where we were for our surf team, our surf club that we were doing for Earth Day, making smoothies and, you know, really getting the ball rolling. And also making shirts with Kutztown University Surfing association, which, yeah, I know it's out in the sticks, but I had some legends, guys that, you know, Brazilian guys and guys that were ranked in the end, you know, the nssa.
And anyway, so I love that.
Selling the coffee, making shirts. We actually almost burned down the art studio when we were doing it because we left one of the presses on. But hey, anything to do, you know, get ahead in college. So I guess we all started off fairly young, trying to make money or. Or feed our caffeine habits for Joe so he could, I guess, continue to study.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Yeah, study. That wasn't his thing. It wasn't this thing the way you said for sure.
Surf club is like Jamaican bobsled. That's the, like those two just don't seem like they should go together.
[00:03:17] Speaker C: Well, when you have a Brazilian guy that's also an entrepreneur that, you know, started the club and guys that were ranked along Ocean City and you know, a lot of guys that were passionate about surfing, like myself, it worked out really well.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: Joe's a surfer, an Ocean City surfer. Did you know that?
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I moved. I moved out here to Carlsbad. I lived in Ocean City for years. I grew up surfing in Ocean City and man.
[00:03:45] Speaker C: So you probably know a guy that I'm talking about with regards to Burning the Art Studio and Todd the Certio.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Oh, I know, I know who he is.
[00:03:57] Speaker C: He went by Todd Marinari.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: I, I absolutely know who that is. I don't know him personally. But you surf in Ocean City. I knew. I know everybody. So yeah.
[00:04:06] Speaker C: So yeah, as a matter of fact, I was up at Todd's art gallery. He, he's pretty big. He has. Sells art all along, you know, everywhere in the world.
And I got a private tour of his gallery last week and really learning about what he did in that and pushing his brand of Cilento, which is a tequila as well. So these are the kind of guys that I went to school with crazy entrepreneurial and spirit and also surfers. So it was, it was good sleep
[00:04:36] Speaker B: on Ocean City for surfing or East Coast. And if you want to see, look at the clips from yesterday and the day before in the blizzard and you'll see that they get. It's world class in the wintertime.
[00:04:50] Speaker C: It's. It's world class and very cold. And I'm a little too old to be in that water anymore like that.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: So now do you. I will tell you, Stephen, my only surfing experience happened to be with Joe. And it was as. As many things are when it comes to Joe, it was ill advised. Like, you know, I shouldn't have done it. I knew I shouldn't have done it. But he was, oh, it's not that hard. So I listened to him. I've listened to him a number of times in my life and regretted many, many, many situations. But in this particular situation was 9 11, the actual 911 and the, you know, get it. We're at yellow Pages and guys like, oh man, the waves are big in Ocean City. We should go. And I'm like, yeah, how big was off the coast?
[00:05:38] Speaker B: And it was firing. I was like, go surf.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: So we all get In a car. We start driving down to Ocean City only to realize we're listening to Howard Stern, that 9 11's happening, right? Like, planes crashing buildings. Like, we're like, what is going on? So the answer to question, how bad could it be?
It got bad when I had to call my wife at, like, 11 o' clock in the morning because she's like, you got to come home. She wasn't my wife yet. And I'm like, I can't. She's like, why not? I'm like, well, I'm not at work. She's like, where are you? I'm like, I'm in joke. I get there, I can't even get a board. The waves were so rough, they wouldn't rent.
So I tried one of these guys for. It didn't work. I failed miserably. And I sat on the beach for
[00:06:22] Speaker C: about three hours while these guys served in that nice. I remember it was a Tuesday morning, blue skies, everything, and just firing.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: It was. Yeah, there was. That's. That's my memory of 9 11. I'm like, dude, it was.
We scored, but it was not this guy.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Anyway, let's get to the meat and potatoes here. We're going to start with our favorite game that gives us the most insight into our guests, and that is two truths and a lie. And as is how this works. Stephen, as you know, you're going to give us three facts. Two of them are true, one of them's a lie. Don't be like, the one guy that gave us all true facts. That's not how it works.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: No, they were all lies. They were all lies that he presented them as facts.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: Joe will try and determine which one is the.
Which one's the lie. And I will say, overall, he's about a 50 50, but he's been on fire the last three he's gotten. So we'll see if he gets a couple books.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: So. Gotten better.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: Okay, so let's go. What is your first fact?
[00:07:27] Speaker C: My first fact, I met John Middleton, who. Who happens to be the owner of the Philadelphia Phillies, on the concourse at PNC bank park with my son.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: Wait, wait, wait. PNC bank, not citizenship.
[00:07:40] Speaker C: That's in Pittsburgh.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: Okay, all right. John Middleton, PNC Bank.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: We've been there, K.J.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: yes, we have.
[00:07:47] Speaker C: Beautiful place. Yeah, Go every year.
Second fact, I played long toss at Citizens bank park, and it was, you know, miserable, rainy night. But anyway, that's. That's for another story.
Third, I've been to 49 out of the 50 states.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:15] Speaker C: And I'M missing Alaska.
[00:08:18] Speaker A: Ah, all right, that's interesting.
So we got John Middleton at PNC Park. He played long toss at Citizens.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: What is long toss? What is that?
[00:08:30] Speaker A: Long toss is like having a catch, but it's a baseball warm up and
[00:08:35] Speaker C: then you stretch out your arm and you throw for distance. That's how you strengthen your arm. That's how with strength training for baseball. That's what we do. What one of the methods of strength training.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: We good, Joe?
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. I didn't know.
Long time. So you threw some baseballs at the Citizen Bank Park.
[00:08:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: All right. And then 49 out of 50 states. We'll come back to that.
First things first. Stephen, thank you again for joining us. If you don't mind, give me just a little background on where you were prior to real estate, how you ended up in real estate, because everybody's story is insanely unique.
[00:09:16] Speaker C: Yeah, so I worked so out of college, I worked in sales and I worked for ABS Canon. I sold copiers, faxes, digital printers, high, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then that world kind of changed a little bit.
Went into coaching and teaching for a while. So I coached high school baseball down in Aberdeen where Cal Ripken went, went to school and had an opportunity to meet him along the way and, you know, solidified a lot of great relationships in, in, you know, in the classroom and also, you know, in the baseball community.
And then as time went on, I, I went back into sales and started working with Jeff about nine, maybe 10 years ago.
And I've been with Jeff ever since.
Along the way, when I was younger, I, you know, I served tables. I did all sorts of different, you know, things that interact with the public and really get the perception of, of, you know, from sales, from a restaurant point of view, all the way through the copying industry and, you know, even selling kids, you know, why history was important to selling baseball, to, you know, as, you know, why, why we play it, you know, what are the truths about the game to, you know, now with Jeff working in his inside sales role as the top guy and then moving my way into the director of sales role.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: So you went from, as you joined with Jeff, you started as inside sales and then worked your way up to director of sales.
[00:11:01] Speaker C: Yes, and I still do a lot of inside sales related stuff. I, I do a lot of the trainings with, with newer agents, I do a lot of trainings with role play scripts, skills, dialogue, all that. Because in the end of the day, I think the most important part, I mean, some People disagree with me. But in order to get in front of people, if you can make a, what Jay Duran would say, a hot call, uh, you know, if you could solidify that, then everything else is sort of gravy once you get in front of somebody. Because people will buy from you if you know what you're talking about, if they like you, and if you, you know, have the skills and the knowledge. And that sort of goes with knowing what you're talking about to, to guide them in the right direction as far as whether it's a copy or sale, a car sale, you know, a home sale, whatever you're selling in life.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: It's interesting, I'm finding that with the AI revolution that, you know, there's two schools of thought. One school of thought is that intelligence, the value of intelligence is crashing like a meme coin. Like, you don't need technical knowledge anymore. What you need is, you need to be able to spot patterns in humans and behavioral patterns, eq.
And I believe that to a large degree that's true. And I think that salespeople specifically are incredibly well positioned for what comes next in the evolution of business marketing, distribution of not just products anymore, but information, ideas, emotions. Like, that's what we as salespeople, I think, are incredibly well positioned to work with as this whole AI thing starts to explode.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: That's key, and it's not. So this is, like you said, a mouthful. The whole idea here, which is happening, and we've seen it, is that because facts or information are so easily available now and like a, a way that to get what's happening is cons, people are getting hip to the fact that other people are using these tools. So now it's a matter of like, the skill set that's being developed and heightened as opposed to, like, knowledge retention is the, is dissemination of this information because, like, you can just overwhelm someone with, with facts of like, oh, I have this and whatever, but the authenticity of where that information's coming from and then how to disseminate whether it's, it's actually applicable to the situation that you're in. That's the, that's really what's happening. Cause like, now it's, you know, consumers are becoming more aware that the person that's talking to them, they probably only have a very, very small summary knowledge of the topic because they haven't done any research other than just asking, like a chatgpt. So that's where it's, it's the authenticity of what you say and how you're saying it and where you actually access that information is crucial. So it's really good point you both made about, you know, reading, reading people and having those conversations like that.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: You know what's funny though, Stephen? Tell me if you agree role playing is.
There are people out there saying you don't need to role play. That's silly.
Role playing to me is one of the single greatest skills a salesperson can develop. The ability to role play, as well as what you learn in the role play.
When you're getting ready to make a call, you think your nerves aren't high, you think you're, you know, your anxiety's up. All the same emotions that bubble up inside you when you're role playing, they bubble up inside you when you're cold calling or hot calling. Right. I love that you, you said that. And that's one of the tenets of what you believe. But tell me more about why you think role playing is important.
[00:15:12] Speaker C: That's a great question.
So, you know, and again, I can put it in, compare it to, like, sports.
One of the greatest basketball players ever to play the game, in my opinion was, was Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan. And if you look at the work ethic that those guys put out, you know what, the small sample that we would see if we went to a, a Lakers game or a Bulls game with Jordan, you know, stressed at the, at the last second and hitting that three.
Yes, he hit those threes and Kobe hit, you know, he continually hit those, you know, shots. And, and Steph Curry, you know, all those guys that were really good shooters, they literally would spend, you know, 15 hours a day in a gym waking up early, taking the same shot repeatedly over and over and over. And role playing in business is no different because if you know your scripts, your skills come with that, you'll, you'll understand what to expect, what to anticipate. And if we don't practice that out of the gate every day, or let's say three times a week, our adversaries or our, you know, people that are competing against us are going to win out and we're going to lose.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: So it's the ones that are doing it though, right? Like, there's a lot of your competition, they're also not doing it 101 that are 100%.
[00:16:39] Speaker C: And you can tell the difference between somebody that just picks up a call, you know, three, four, five hours a day, versus somebody that actually trains and gets dialogue and insight from better people.
Right. I mean, and I'm not just role playing with people that are local. We role play with people around the country to get different perspective.
Somebody in California, maybe they're coming across something different, you know, as a. As an objection. So how are we going to handle the objection? Handle.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: You know, it's funny. We talked about selling coffee over the phone, and this company was big on scripts. We had the binder, right? You get an objection, you flip to that tab, you flip it over, you read. And I think all kidding aside, what Joe was very good at was he internalized those scripts. And I think that that's where the magic happens. It's like an actor that reads their lines, right? If, If, If. If you're on a movie set and they say, action. And you look down and you go, hey, that's my bike. Don't take. Like, it's obvious you're reading from a script, but these actors, they memorize the script, but. And then they internalize it and then they deliver it as themselves. Hey, that's my butt. You know? So, like, it comes out like. But that was. That's the value of scripting and role playing is. Gives you the opportunity to internalize these things so they could come out.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: You can't realize them, though. To his point, you can't. You need reps, dude. The more you do it, the more it becomes you. It's the. I. I've recently had the biggest letdown in my life, dude. Like, I learned that success is so boring because all it is is just consistency. Like, if you do the same, if you're just consistent and you do reps and you, like, you'll get. You'll. Eventually, you can accomplish anything if you just do the work and you do the reps and it's not exciting. It's kind of monotonous. But, like, if you role play and you do and roleplay doesn't. People. I think people think that I have to get an acting partner and sit down or we're gonna go back and forth. I role play in my head all the time before I have any conversation with anyone, if it's important. I've had that conversation 700 times before. I open my mouth and I say, well, if they say this and I'll say this, and I said like, and. And people will be like, ah, how are you so quick, man? You're always so quick. You always have responses like, it's because I've had this conversation a hundred times before we even said spoke. And like, that's how that. I mean, that's like a trick that I've learned. It's just like, dude, you just do it over and over and over and over. And then people are so aversive.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: Sales people too, Stephen. Like, how do you get what you got? A real estate agent comes in the door, you're going to check me, hey, here's the deal. I'm going to teach you this. You're going to do it. How do you get them over that humper? You're fired.
[00:19:27] Speaker C: I mean that's great, that's a great question. But before I answer that, let me just get back to what Joe said there real fast. That, that, you know, the idea of being successful is really consistency and repetitious boredom. Right. You have to constantly play things out in your head. And Joe, when you were saying that, you know, replay something 700 times in your head. I do that all the time.
But I think that's what you're anticipating. You know, you're skating to where the puck's going and not where the puck was.
So you have to always anticipate.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: The other thing that, and this is important and this is something where I realized experience matters.
If you don't know your scripts, if you don't know your objection up, you know, overcoming the objectives, if you don't know that stuff, the way Joe does, the way we do, like what ends up happening is you stop listening because you're preparing for the next comment because you're not good at it, because you haven't had the reps, because you haven't had the practice. You're still trying to work through a conversation and process in real time. But when you get good at it, when you master scripts, when you master role playing, you're no longer thinking ahead of what the next comments going to be. You can be present minded, you can be in the moment with your customer and still know what you're going to say when the moment presents itself. I think that's, that's the difference and that's where that practice and the reps and you know, mastery of that skill, it takes time and that, you know, I wouldn't expect a five agent, even an agent that's been in the business four or five years, loan officer, been in the business four or five years. Most of them never put the effort in this area. But even ones that do, I don't think five years is enough. I think that you don't get really, really, really good at this until you're 10, 11, 12 years in the business. That's been my experience.
[00:21:29] Speaker C: Yeah, so that's a good point. So my dad Would always say, you know, God gave you two ears and one mouth. Listen more and talk less the more.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: My dad used to say, shut the hell up.
[00:21:40] Speaker C: No, well, hey, you know, everybody has a different personality style that we have to pick up as salespeople, right?
So you know, getting back to that thought that if we internalize our scripts, it allows us to listen to everything that Joe is saying or everything that Ken is saying. And it, and we never, we won't get knocked off the bike because we can anticipate what's going to happen next to ask the right question, but to listen open mindedly. And that is very critical to, you know, be able to move forward and win as many opportunities as we can. Because let's face it, when you make calls, you know, the majority of the time is no, no, no, no, no. But you're one step closer to a yes.
So.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Well, the other thing too is like when you're confident in that and you know your stuff, it takes on like a different level where you're, now you're listening but you're, you're like empathetically listening. So like you could be like, okay, there's keywords that like, if they say this, then this is the rebuttal to this, or like this, this, like, like word association. But when you get really good at it, you think you listen to like how they say it and like, so then you can identify their personality type and be like, well, if I say this to this type of person, that's not how they make a decision.
I need to, I need to come back with something that's more emotional or more visual or something like that. And that's when you get really good. And it all comes from intently listening. And like you go from, I'm a salesperson and more like, I'm on the spot psychologist. Like, let me figure out what makes this guy tick I can communicate with. What I have to offer is going to make him put him in a better situation.
And, and the other key to that too is like, you have to be confident that what you have to offer doesn't suit everybody.
And if you're listening and truly trying to figure out like is, is my solution better for them, Are they going to be better off or am I just cramming this down their throat because I have these ninja skills that can convince anybody of anything, then like you get more confident in helping people as opposed to just selling people. So that part of it, you kind of progress into that when you actually get good at listening and figuring out you know, what you have to offer if it fits into what they're looking for.
[00:24:07] Speaker C: That's a. Joe, that's a great point. I mean, one of the things that I would use when I'm almost ready to lock down an opportunity or an appointment, I would simply say to the person, like, say, for example, it was an expired listing. Right. And I would say to Mr. Seller, you know, for us to come out, one of two things is going to happen. We're either going to decide that we want to partner with each other, putting the ball back in their court, or at the very least, at least our listing agent can come out and see what your home has to offer outside of the. Than just looking at it on the mls. That way we can share it with all of our buyer agents back, you know, in our office.
Is that something that you would consider?
Oh, of course. I mean, are they really going to say no to that?
So these are all the things you're exactly talking about. Finding that personality, figuring out, putting the ball back in their court to see if, in fact, we're going to be a good partnership. Because that's what it really comes down to. It's not just. It's not about us, it's about them.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Yeah, some of, I would say, like, over the years, some of my most rewarding sales calls, if you will, have ended with me basically selling them on why they shouldn't work with me. We're like, nah, like, you don't need this. Like, this is not like, like, I would love to work with you, but, like, I'm not the solution. But I have a better solution. And that in itself has actually gotten me so much more business because they're, you know, these. They'll leave them. We leave them in a better place. That's always my expectation. It's like, we can have a conversation.
I'll figure out if this is a good fit, and if it's not, I'll at the very least point you in the right direction to get you where you need to go. And like, when you approach it that way with, you know, sales or whatever, like, like, you're definitely. If you don't get that person to work with you, they're going to absolutely refer you to other people because you've provided a service and, you know, the laws of the year are going to come back.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: And it's hard to get to that place until you're in that abundant, like, mindset.
[00:26:15] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:26:15] Speaker A: And salespeople by nature live in scarcity. They. When's my next. Where's my next deal coming from? Where am I going to eat? Even if they're making good money, they still find themselves in that scarcity place. And people who are in scarcity aren't going to do that, unfortunately, you know,
[00:26:30] Speaker B: and change your mindset.
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Correct, correct. So, speaking of which, Steven, I want to shift gears here a little bit because I know that teaching salespeople the X's and O's is a big part of what you do. But, but you also help people scale.
[00:26:44] Speaker C: Right?
[00:26:44] Speaker A: Your, your goal is to help them grow too. Right? Right. So if you had an agent that kind of like walked in the door and was like, I want to join OCF because I want to scale my business, what's the first thing you would tell them to do before they scale, before they try?
[00:27:01] Speaker C: You know, I, I, I think that we brought, we're now. So we were part of Keller Williams for a while. I'm just going to give you a little back end. We ended up leaving KW in bluebell and going with, with ocf. And when we left as a team, it was literally just four of us, maybe five.
And now we're looking at, all right, well, who do we want to bring in to our world? Because the culture has to be right. So we brought. The first one that we added was Darcy Scalin, who works out of our Montgomery county office. And she went from doing 12 or 13 deals to doing like 38 or 40 deals the year that she joined us. And I think, how, how did she scale that?
We have a lot of back end that handles all the minutia of real estate. So you're not writing your contracts. You're not, you know, you have a transaction coordinator. You have all these little things in place.
You have people, you know, connecting an inside sales team, connecting and finding opportunities. So it would allow Darcy to spend more of her time scaling her business in front of people where she's best.
So I feel like when we look at people, we're kind of looking at our team as an assembly line. We all collectively work together, but at the same time, you know, we want to make sure that the individual agent, the quarterback, the listing agent or the buyer agent is the figurehead. And they're, they're scaling their business to what they want because, let's face it, we're all in different stages of life.
Some have little kids, some have kids in college, some are single. So we all have to, we have to do it on an individual basis. I feel, Ken, simply because one, one shoe doesn't fit all one size, doesn't fit all.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: I think that there's a great book called the Big Leap. I don't know if you've ever read it, but in this the author talks about being in your zone of genius.
And you know what it is when you see it. When you're in that place where your God given skills and talents are on full display.
You know, when you're frustrated, you're working on something you're not good at, you can't quite get. It's annoying, it takes time.
[00:29:27] Speaker C: You're not operating technology with me.
[00:29:31] Speaker A: They don't know that. It took you 10 minutes to get your speakers working for this podcast.
[00:29:35] Speaker C: Hey, listen, everybody else in my office would know.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: Is there people around right now that can hear you?
[00:29:42] Speaker C: No, no, I'm in my home office.
[00:29:44] Speaker A: I was gonna say hi to everybody,
[00:29:45] Speaker C: but they would know because if had I been in the office, you know, one of the, one of the younger agents would have helped me navigate the, the solution of the technology.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: So to your point, why on your face though?
[00:29:58] Speaker A: I can't figure it out.
[00:30:00] Speaker C: Draw it right here.
I'm stupid.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: But that's, that's just it.
Salespeople want to make all the money. I get that. But the smartest salespeople start to realize, okay, I don't have to make all the money. What I have to do is operate in my zone of genius, delegate the things and pay for the things that I'm not good at. Because if you don't, if a salesperson is not willing to pay for these things, what ends up happening is they either want the resources or they don't. If they don't want the resources, they're going to be the jack of all trades. They're going to be frustrated, burnout level goes high, the ebbs and flows of the business become more drastic, or they get the resources and keep their compensation the same and charge the clients, and now their business model is out of whack. I think that a salesperson realizes, okay, I need to kind of take a look at what I make and buy back my time by saying, okay, I'm going to pay this person to do this. I'm going to pay this person to do this. And sometimes that could be, I'm going to pay this person who works for OCF to do this portion of my business and I'm going to pay them a portion of their salary. Like so many people are reluctant to let go of that and it holds them back. I mean, if I'm talking to a loan Officer wants to scale. The first thing I say is, let me A, let me see your P and L and then B, let me see your calendar. And if. If I could look at your P and on your calendar and I can tell you exactly why you're not scaling.
[00:31:23] Speaker C: We have to fix their business mindset.
I. I think that's a big thing. You know, when you're used to doing everything on your own and some people, what I've found personally, anyway, it's tough to relinquish or give up the control of what you're so used to doing. Like, am I really going to rely upon this VA over in the Philippines? Am I really going to rely up person to do this?
So, you know, with this comes a lot of trust.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's very true.
Growth is also part of your job for ocf, for Jeff's team.
How do you. How do you manage, you know, growth? You said the word trust.
How do you manage that growth while maintaining the culture, the people that you want to surround yourself with or that you want to be part of this team?
[00:32:19] Speaker C: So, great question.
I really feel, and I don't say this just because I work on this team, but I really feel that everybody in the office is not just a co worker.
We actually are friends.
So there's no animosity for this, that and the other. We're all working together to achieve the one goal of, you know, bringing our success levels up, each and every, every single one of us.
So I give you a perfect example. When we split and left kw, that rebuilding year was really challenging. I mean, there were times where I didn't know Jeff, didn't know if we were going to actually be able to make that leap of faith. Because, you know, our closing in 2024, I think that we closed around $40 million or 45 million.
And it was a smaller team. But, you know, like you said, with business, we have a lot of expenses.
So what we ended up doing for 2025, we brought in one other agent later on in the year. So her 20. Close to 20 million. She was like 250,000 short of 20 million. But pretty much every single person on our team is doing, you know, close to a $20 million volume. That's impressive, which is impressive because last year we ended just shy of 90 million. That was the goal that I set and really, really pushed for.
And we ended up short. But it was, you know, it was all hands on deck, like, what can we do to close in November and December? And literally everybody worked Their tails off all the way even through into the holiday season. So we had the best December that our teams ever had in 2025.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: So is that the story you tell when you're talking and recruiting and, and attracting talent? Is that. Is that a core of what you did, the message you're trying to deliver?
[00:34:21] Speaker C: So that is definitely the message that we are delivering, that we're looking to continuously grow and grow within the terms of whatever the individual agent really wants to do. They want to do 5 million or 10 million. You know, we. We can cater a program to them. This year, we're looking to shoot for 150 million and. And grow.
We're bringing more and more people into our Margate office. We're trying to add somebody up by you, Ken, in Delco and in Chester County.
[00:34:54] Speaker A: I can't wait.
[00:34:56] Speaker C: I would love that. You know, if there's anybody out there that's looking, that you always get, give me a call anytime. Be happy to talk.
[00:35:04] Speaker A: Yeah, they pay 5% commission on every deal, guys. So if you're out there, Steve's like, whoa, whoa.
[00:35:11] Speaker C: We. We can talk about splits later. But everybody on our team's very happy services that are provided and, and the people that they're around, the culture is a big deal in the business.
[00:35:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: So, you know, and that's something that we learned along the way that we, you know, you have to be slow to hire and quick to fire in some ways, because if it's not a perfect personality fit for the organization, then, you know, in a gentle, nice way, hey, listen, maybe this organization isn't for
[00:35:44] Speaker A: you, or the industry is, or the
[00:35:46] Speaker C: industry may not be for you.
[00:35:47] Speaker A: I. I've learned a mortgage business. For a minute, he. He probably forgot about that.
[00:35:52] Speaker B: No, that was not for me, man. It's definitely not. Not my skill set.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: Steven, it was not easy to fire him. It was a hard day. Like, this ain't working out.
[00:36:04] Speaker C: Hey, now, you guys run a great podcast.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: That's it.
No, but you know what? No, it's like, there's a lesson in that. And, you know, hiring the people that that's what they're good at. Like, taking the time to actually find someone who will excel is. Is crucial because just because they're good at one thing doesn't mean that they're going to be good at another. And if you try and hire someone that's not a fit, you're doing them a disservice because they could flourish somewhere else doing something differently. So, you know, it takes a specific skill set. For a lot of these careers that people choose that, you know, I see people labor through them and they're like, oh, man. Like, Kenny was sales. Like, when we were selling coffee, you know, it took him.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: I'd say I was bad at it. I paid you a compliment. All right.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: No, hold on. I'm not, bro. I'm not. I'm not putting you down here, but I'm saying for you to have the same level of success at that job as I did, you had to work 10 times harder than I did because it. Because you needed to utilize a different skill set to be good at that job.
So we were, let's say, equally as successful, but it was killing you to be successful. Whereas me, it's like, well, it was a walk in the park. So when you find people that, you know, like, when you have a job and you see someone isn't a great fit, they're going to have to work, they're going to get burnout, they're not going to be happy. It's going to affect your culture. So when you find the people who are, like, naturally good at that position and have that skill set, it makes everything a lot easier. And it's not a bad thing if someone's not good at that job. It's just they're going to be better at a different job.
[00:37:45] Speaker A: So that felt like a dig. That still felt like a dig. Stephen, I don't know. Do you think.
[00:37:50] Speaker C: No, I. I don't think it's a dig. I think that he was just expressing, and this is the truth, that some people just have to work 10 times harder at a particular job than somebody else that's having incredible success doing whatever he's doing. Whether it was his right.
[00:38:09] Speaker A: I don't know what was going on in college, but.
[00:38:12] Speaker C: But, you know, hey, he was. He was successful where you. And also, you know, Joe probably really enjoyed selling those beans where you would rather be selling something else.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: Yes, it was. It was fun. Nonetheless, we all hopped up on coffee, and it was the good old days.
All right, time to get to our favorite part of the show. And that is where we have to figure out. Joe gets first crack at it. Have to figure out which of Stephen's facts were true and which of his facts were a lie. I'm going to start with John Middleton, PNC Park. Ran into John Middleton, met John Middleton on the concourse of PNC Park.
Long toss at Citizens bank park in the rain. Threw that detail in there at the last second. And something. Something I picked up on that. And then 49 out of 50 states visited Joe.
Which one of those is the lie?
[00:39:14] Speaker B: Okay, so going with the theme, there's a baseball coach and all that, like, so the first two seem very feasible.
And I don't know, like PNC Park. That is a random thing that you just, like, you would recognize them, I'm sure.
Whereas no one in PNC park, being all that, the Pirates fans would probably pay the guy notice. So. So that I feel that that's very feasible.
Long toss.
Yeah. I mean, why wouldn't you be?
If you're a baseball coach, probably have, you know, a team or something, whatever. I believe that no one's been to all 50 states. It's so hard to go to all contiguous 49 states.
[00:39:59] Speaker A: Well, it's only 48.
[00:40:01] Speaker B: Well, 40. Yeah, 48. My bad. And, like, people take a trip to Hawaii, but there's no way. There's. There's gotta be. There's gotta be a state that you missed. So I'm gonna say the 50 states is a lot.
[00:40:15] Speaker A: I'm gonna agree. But I will say number one. John Middleton. I ran into John Middleton twice at Citizens Bank Park. The dude literally walks the concourse at Citizens Bank Park. Like, it's not that people stop them.
I guess it was when Jimmy Rollins made into the Wall of Fame. You know, my wife and I, we ran into him in the concourse and I asked if I get his picture. And I'm standing all my French fries in the picture, and his daughter is with him. He goes. She goes, do you want me to hold your French fries?
Yeah, that'd be nice. I give it a French fries, they take the picture. I still have it. So. Yes. I believe you ran into John Middleton. I believe you recognized them long toss thing. The only thing that was weird, that it was raining. I feel like there's a detail in there that might be important. But that being said, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go with Joe on 49 out of 50 states. Which one of those was the lie?
[00:41:03] Speaker C: So I did run into John Middleton. And. And as a business thing, I'd like to just say this, that my son spotted him.
I didn't.
And, you know, because I was too busy looking for some food because I didn't eat all day, and it was
[00:41:18] Speaker B: like brothers in that st.
Yeah, I
[00:41:22] Speaker C: mean, well, it was a. It was a rainy Sunday afternoon, and my son goes, hey, look, there's John. So we went over and I asked him, just like you did, Ken, for a picture. And here's what I like about John Middleton. I went. I said, hey, Mr. Middleton, how are you? And I put my hand out to shake it, and he said, please call me John. I'm only John. So when I make calls through business, I'm thinking, I just shook this guy's hand and took his picture with him, and he's worth over $4 billion and he's the nicest guy in the world, so why do I fear calling anyone? Right?
[00:41:57] Speaker A: Good point.
[00:41:59] Speaker C: I have been to 49 out of the 50 states.
[00:42:02] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:42:03] Speaker C: See, as a kid, I used to travel cross country with my parents a lot, and I've been to Hawaii as well. So the one that was incorrect was the long toss at Citizens Bank. I never did that.
[00:42:19] Speaker A: Two things.
I should trust myself. Number one, you never said who you long toss with. If you long toss at Citizens bank park, chances are it was with another baseball player. Like, maybe it was your son.
[00:42:33] Speaker B: Catch it right.
[00:42:36] Speaker A: Back to explaining long toss, the joke and then. But the reigning part, you threw that detail in and I thought, that's an odd detail to just throw. We learn we're getting better at this, Stephen. We're getting better at this. But you got us today.
[00:42:52] Speaker C: Can I tie something in with this, Ken?
[00:42:54] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:55] Speaker C: That when I went to do these, I went to Gemini on.
On AI. And I asked how to word this to trick you guys gave it to me perfectly.
[00:43:09] Speaker A: So I'm trying cheating man.
[00:43:12] Speaker C: You didn't tell me I couldn't do it. And in business, you're always trying to stay ahead of the game.
[00:43:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:43:20] Speaker C: And that's what I tried to do with you, but it was great.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: You were. You were ahead of the game. So what's your favorite state?
[00:43:28] Speaker B: Yeah. What made you go to all 49 or 49 states?
[00:43:32] Speaker A: How.
[00:43:32] Speaker B: How did you do that and why?
[00:43:34] Speaker C: So we would travel as a family. When I was growing up, I had three other siblings and my parents and my grandparents, and we would hit ballparks along the way, so.
Yeah. And I had friends that lived in La Jolla, so it was out in California. Quite often we would do like, the. The northern route out and the southern route home. And every time we would take a different way and just do something in each state.
[00:43:58] Speaker A: Do you have a board? Do you have a picture of the United States with pins in it?
[00:44:02] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I've seen that.
[00:44:04] Speaker A: Really?
[00:44:04] Speaker C: No. No. But I've seen that. I was never given that. I was young when I was doing this, you know, like high school age and younger.
[00:44:13] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:44:13] Speaker C: And I still travel, but to make, you know, to hit everything, because that was Always. My mom and dad's goal was to hit every state.
[00:44:21] Speaker B: Okay. So they were trying. So that.
[00:44:23] Speaker C: No, yeah, we tried.
[00:44:24] Speaker A: We tried.
[00:44:26] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:44:26] Speaker B: So I'm just.
[00:44:29] Speaker A: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[00:44:32] Speaker B: no, no, no, no.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: Like.
[00:44:36] Speaker C: And I got good fighting in the car with my brothers, you know?
[00:44:39] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't want to tell you what me and my brothers are doing. We took our trip to Toronto. That's for a different kind of show.
[00:44:46] Speaker C: Oh, nice.
[00:44:47] Speaker A: Bad news.
[00:44:47] Speaker B: You're trying to go to all 50 states, and you're just like, all right, well, like, I'm just gonna hit Rhode island for the hell of it. You know, like, there's nothing to really do there. But you're just like, all right, well,
[00:44:57] Speaker C: there's surf up there.
[00:44:58] Speaker B: I know they're surfing.
Okay.
[00:45:01] Speaker A: People in Rhode island would disagree with you, Joe.
[00:45:03] Speaker B: No. Point. Point Judith has actually got some.
Got some.
[00:45:07] Speaker C: He's never been to the mansions up there.
[00:45:10] Speaker B: No, I have not. I've never been.
[00:45:11] Speaker A: Shows, and it shows one day.
[00:45:14] Speaker C: Rhode island is incredible. I mean, Taylor Swift makes her home. Now, that should tell you something.
[00:45:20] Speaker B: I said I'm out of here.
[00:45:24] Speaker A: I got to go finish watching the Heiress tour on Netflix. I appreciate you guys hanging out today, and we will catch up. Steven, hopefully you'll come back 100%.
[00:45:34] Speaker C: This is fun. Have a great day, guys.
[00:45:37] Speaker A: Enjoy your day.
[00:45:38] Speaker C: You too.
[00:45:46] Speaker A: You're listening to Selling the Dream. This isn't an interview, and we're not journalists, but each week, we'll ask our guests to open up and share their secrets to business success.
Let's have a conversation and have some fun.
